Ryandor.com

Well, I finally took the time to get a linux enviroment on my mac. So technically, I can now do linux coding again. Not sure why I would want to, but I can.

Still too cheap to buy an XP license, so a windows enviroment is still out of the question.

Hey, I'll get you an XP license if you will return to developing UO utilities again!

_________________
-= HellRazor =-
Shattered Sosaria is coming!
http://www.shatteredsosaria.com

hehe. The issue is I need a non upgrade license, and those are pricey! How is Iris doing? Anyone give thought to do an emu just focused on Iris (and get rid of worrying about UO updates)?

Hmm, check this out:
http://www.klinksoftware.com/

The code works on windows and mac. The graphic design tools seem to be mac only however (but the game you create runs on any).

Think something I will have to check out.

Seriously, I'd buy you one if it gets you back. We need good tool developers, there are so many things that still COULD be done but aren't done just because we don't have anyone doing them.

Examples:

- A patcher to set the number of skills the client will read (its hardcoded but can be patched).
- Tools to compare UO installations for changes, and report back on the changes, with options to patch over. (For custom shard that are trying to keep current with UO versions).
- A fully integrated world building utility that does bitmaps, actual in-game map editing, and static support. Basically a tool that combines MG2, Worldbuilder, CentrEd, UOCopy, and UO Architect into one killer app.
- A 3rd generation MUL editing utlity that imports/exports/compares, supports batch importing, etc., all set into an easy-to-use interface.

Those are just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are tons of things I am forgetting.



The main limitations I see with a lot of the home brew engines (including Iris) are with the graphics. I mean, if I move to 3D graphics, I want them to be GOOD 3D graphics. The other problem is the whole learning curve of learning how to do 3D modeling and texturing, etc. which I have zero experience in.

Have you taken a look at the Torque engine over at garagegames.com? Of all the ones I have seen, that one looks the most promising. But still, way too much of a learning curve for me.

The nice thing about UO is that modification is relatively easy and most of the work is already done. So you can spend your time implementing new features instead of trying to re-invent the wheel. Plus I like 2D isometric graphics, I'm not sure why some people think of them as antiquated. If something looks good, it looks good. I liked the graphics in SACRED as well and they were all 2D rendered Granny models (the difference between UO 3rd Dawn and Sacred models is just staggering, UO3D did such a crappy job on theirs).

_________________
-= HellRazor =-
Shattered Sosaria is coming!
http://www.shatteredsosaria.com

yes,I have looked at Torque (even written a few things with it).

I totally agree, the nice thing about UO, was it was simple to add. However, a major determent is availability of the client (and supported platforms).

I keep seeing how people want to create new worlds. It would seem to me, to do that, one should "own" the server and client then. And ideally have it work on as many platforms as possible. (to make it worth the effort). The downside, is being in a 3d world, the skill level of graphic work has increased.

What I liked about DIm, was it was ready to go. It let people worry about the game (easy to script, supported full graphics including advanced features like shaders), but one could change the source code. And it came with tools to build the map and animations (true, only on the mac). However, that could be the first project, port the tools to other platforms).

Just seems like a nice base, to get people to work on (versus investing in a system that one wont ever control, and is limited to platforms)

Awhile ago I considered switching to some other engine for my shard, but as I investigated I found that they were all either lacking in some fundamental area, or would demand too much development time just to have a basic framework.

It got me to thinking that there is definately a market for a MMO game engine that is designed for rapid development and easy expansion. It should be designed for a novice programmer level and able to use pre-existing content from the internet (i.e. 3D models).

Alas such a thing doesn't yet exist (closest thing I have seen has been torque and Mineons of Mirth (which is basically a toolkit built from Torque), but they aren't user friendly for a novice and the graphics are somewhat lacking in MoM, while Torque requires a huge learning curve, especially for a novice). And of course there is Neverwinter Nights, but those aren't designed to be run as an MMO, and those that are run as such do so with a lot of limitations (i.e., cap on number of allowed players on the server; NWN2 has restrictions on world size; etc.)

But whoever designs such a thing I think will be able to fill a niche market. When you consider all the emulators and mods out there, and look at the success of platforms like Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2, people are definately interested in running home brew servers.

_________________
-= HellRazor =-
Shattered Sosaria is coming!
http://www.shatteredsosaria.com

Well, I was thinking about hobbyiest, perhaps even in the emu arena.

Take UO emu community. Right now, they are facing a situation, where the possiblit of the client going away (becoming incompatable) is rather likely (at least somewhat likely). On top of that, in a world that has adopted more then one platform, limited in its distribution (I agree, for many, this isn't an issue, but wait before final judgement).

So right now, one has the option of going to Runuo/Playuo. Or Iris and your favorite emu. Both still want UO data (so the client availability comes back). To customize it, one is still doing a lot of "scripting". and of course, if one ever has a disagreement on what should be available to their users, they are at the mercy of the Playuo/Razor/Connectuo team (with Iris, they are not, they have the code).

Torque takes a steap learning curve, and not really sure people need something that sohpisticated. But what if, the community focused on developing a set of core terrain graphics. And made that available. Same with a basic set of models. Then, with something like Dim3, EVERY person has the option of forming a team, and going from there. WIth the same work as is involved now (ok, more work, but not from scratch).
How is this different from today? For now, one has the OPTION, of controlling their destiny (the team does). If they want to excersize it (they may not want to , but there may come a day, they do want to).

That seems to me to be worth investing in. I am less inclined these days to invest in things that I dont have the option of having input on its direction for the future.

To me, that is where I think the communit should look at. Communities like Orb, Ryndor, and other emu ones. If they focused around an engine and client, and developed a base graphic set for use (versus recoding engines, etc), then they all have a great core. And one could share code if they wanted to make new tools, or not. One could choose to decide how much affliation there team would want.

That is what I think makes sense. SInce I do, I know it must not be right, for obvious things to me are never the majority opinon.

Well, I was thinking about hobbyiest, perhaps even in the emu arena.

Take UO emu community. Right now, they are facing a situation, where the possiblit of the client going away (becoming incompatable) is rather likely (at least somewhat likely). On top of that, in a world that has adopted more then one platform, limited in its distribution (I agree, for many, this isn't an issue, but wait before final judgement).

So right now, one has the option of going to Runuo/Playuo. Or Iris and your favorite emu. Both still want UO data (so the client availability comes back). To customize it, one is still doing a lot of "scripting". and of course, if one ever has a disagreement on what should be available to their users, they are at the mercy of the Playuo/Razor/Connectuo team (with Iris, they are not, they have the code).

Torque takes a steap learning curve, and not really sure people need something that sohpisticated. But what if, the community focused on developing a set of core terrain graphics. And made that available. Same with a basic set of models. Then, with something like Dim3, EVERY person has the option of forming a team, and going from there. WIth the same work as is involved now (ok, more work, but not from scratch).
How is this different from today? For now, one has the OPTION, of controlling their destiny (the team does). If they want to excersize it (they may not want to , but there may come a day, they do want to).

That seems to me to be worth investing in. I am less inclined these days to invest in things that I dont have the option of having input on its direction for the future.

To me, that is where I think the communit should look at. Communities like Orb, Ryndor, and other emu ones. If they focused around an engine and client, and developed a base graphic set for use (versus recoding engines, etc), then they all have a great core. And one could share code if they wanted to make new tools, or not. One could choose to decide how much affliation there team would want.

That is what I think makes sense. SInce I do, I know it must not be right, for obvious things to me are never the majority opinon.

Oh, another nice graphics engine is panda3d, by disney. www.panda3d.org

And thanks for the XP license offer. If I ever truely have a need, I will get one. I have forgotten so much about UO, doubt I could even code anything for it.

Oh I doubt that punt, you are a quick study. Just let me know. We miss you in these parts.

I don't think we're in much danger with the UO client. I mean, really, they could stop development on the 2D client today and it wouldn't really harm the community much. Illegal that it may be, most people can distribute whatever version of the client that they want to be used on their shard. I don't think the 2D client is going anywhere tho, at least not until UO either goes belly-up, or just forces everyone to use KR. Because a lot of players really haven't warmed up to the KR client at all.

But of course, like you said, you're stuck using someone else's client and graphics, which really almost forces you to do some either illegal or shady/grey area things to run a server.

Otherwise, I agree with everything you are saying. I think if there were a client/server that was open source, had some default graphical elements in place, and already had a variety of systems built that the end users could mix/match/rearrange/nix/whatever, then I would consider jumping to something like that. In a way, that's really what I am doing right now with the RunUO code and the UO client - most things are already built and I am modifying it to suit my needs.

I just haven't found anything that wouldn't require me to spend so much time learning and/or building that I would never get the project off the ground. Hell, trying to get just a UO server off the ground has been hard enough. Another problem with a modern day engine is that it forces you to build a development team, you can't go it alone unless you happen to be skilled in multiple facets of programming, 3D models and textures, etc.

One absolute requirement for me for a 3D engine is that I have to like the graphics. I'm very picky about my 3D graphics because personally I think most of them look like shit. I like the 3D visuals in City of Heroes. I hate the 3D visuals in Mineons of Mirth. Games like Unreal (sharp but murky) and NWN2 (eh...so-so) fall kind of in the middle for me. I imagine to have the types of 3D graphics I would want I would almost need to have a professional 3D modeller. Not sure how many of those guys are actually doing non-paid fan projects.

_________________
-= HellRazor =-
Shattered Sosaria is coming!
http://www.shatteredsosaria.com

Hey, on a side issue, is there a web site that has step-by-step instructions for compiling a project that uses QT with Visual Studio?

I'd like to play around with some of your old projects but they all use QT and I have no idea how to integrate QT with Visual Studio. I've found a few references but it looks SOOOO complicated. Surely there must be an easier way.

_________________
-= HellRazor =-
Shattered Sosaria is coming!
http://www.shatteredsosaria.com

Dont use VS *grin*? No idea, never really used VS, and definitely never used the ide (just used nmake)