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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:24 pm 
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Journeyman
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Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:14 am
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Back when I had Tuner and she mined for 6 months straight I had the ideal system.

Hiroudeh, its on the eastern amarrian border as I recall. .5 space. Lots of omber, scordite, plag, veld, etc.

Tommorrow morning during maintenance Aula's picture is changing, so check it out tonight if you've never looked because its the last time she will look that way heehee. Played Aula for just about a year now time for a new look.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:11 pm 
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Posting Whore
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Location: Colorado Springs, Co.
The system you refered to is great for ores. There are very few people who go there and even fewer stay for long. Have seen one person living there with three accounts running miners for hours on end.

Angels are pretty hard to kill compaired to the ones in the Gallente systems.

Dev

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:57 am 
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Journeyman
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of all the npc bad guys the angel are the most difficult. the reason? the rest of the npc factions each fly one player race's ships and stick to that one race's ships. so you can fit properly and make quick work of them.

angel? angel have armor tankers, shield tankers, ships with hi em resistance, ships with explosive resistance, etc, etc.

Very irritating. I simply toss the active shield hardeners on that give a bonus to all my resistances. i use kinetic and explosive missiles mixed. kinetic for shields, explosive for armor. hull always goes quickly.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:05 am 
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Journeyman
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Well Auora didn't last long. She joined the pirate corp down in 0.0 and things went well for afew days. Then they convinced me to bring Aula into the corp since aula had 1000% more sk pts than Auora.

After a week down there with aula, and 1.5billion in ships and equipment and implants lost, I gave up and pulled Aula. They got pissed and tried to convince me to keep her down there with them. I said nope, I have a lvl4 agent in caldari space that I can make 100mil + a day not including loot from agent running.

They promptly said Auora wouldnt work out with them and kicked her. I brought Auora up to empire, but got bored with her quickly. Aula is decimated right now, I had just enough funds to put her back in her raven and thats it. I have her on "vacation" skill training.

Interestingly this prompted me to log into my third character that I havent even had undock from station in months. Her name is Outmode and since day one all she has done is train for tech II ships. I trained her into interceptors for the amarr race. Then instead of training to use it well with combat skills, I simply looked at the Assault Frigates and began training her into that. And then Covert Ops, and then cloaking devices for the Covert Ops ship.

But I can't stand laser combat that amarrians specialize in. So I have roleplayed her up into caldari space and she is 1 week from caldari frigate 5. When she hits that she will instantly have access to caldari interceptors, assault frigates, and covert ops heehee!

And then...its off to Interdictors. Wicked Destroyers with an attitude :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:12 pm 
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Posting Whore
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Well I'm losing speed quick, sort of lost as to what to do with myself. My poor little miner is working on training up skills for his Covetor but after thinking about it over the last week that might be a bad idea.

Unless I go into 0.4 space or under I won't make much money mining and a Covetor in 0.4 space is a sitting duck...

The missions are great other than the last one I did got me blown out of the water after passing through three 0.0 systems over a 70k courier mission from an agent, ended up costing me over 3 million to replace my ship and equipment not including implants which costed over 90 million more.

So...how the heck do you find an agent that won't send you to your death for punk money? I don't have the skills for Cruisers or Battleships so 0.0 space is death to me.

Dev

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:14 pm 
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Journeyman
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There are several factors in choosing an agent.

Step 1
Turn on your map.

Step 2
Decide if you want courier missions or combat missions. If you want combat missions you will be looking for a npc corp with military sounding divisions such as command, surveillance, security, etc. If you want courier missions you will want a npc corp with divisions like accounting, management, etc.

Step 3.....ahh hell with it. I'm going to pretend that you want to blow stuff up. Your Gallente right? Your official military is called the "Federation Navy" so lets pretend you want to work for them.

Open up your people and places. Choose corporation as your filter and type federation navy for the string. Search. Right click on federation navy and choose show info. Click on the agents tab. You now see every single agent that works for the federation navy, divided by divisions.

Lets open the Command division. From top to bottom it is lowest quality lowest level to highest quality highest level. You want I assume a lvl1 agent. Quality ranges from -20 to +20 with the +20 paying best.

There are three determining factors when it comes to agent pay. First is their Level. The levels go from 1 to 5 with 5 not being available to us yet. Second is Quality, the higher the quality the better the pay. The third factor is the security level of the system they are in. A +17 quality agent in a .3 system is going to pay you ALOT better than a +20 quality agent in a .9 system. The system sec. level also has a factor on the challenge of the missions.

Ok now, looking at the command division you can see that there are 7 level 1 agents. Their quality ranges from -11 to +17. On your map control panel click display settings and then click stars. give it about 30 seconds to load. Choose to display them by security status. This will change all the systems on the map to a color code reflecting their security status.

Now right click on the +17 lvl1 agent in the list and choose set destination. Follow the line to its destination and look at the system the agent is in and surrounding systems. You don't want this agent. He is in .1 space. That equals blow up for you so lets set destinagion on the +12 agent in the list next. Just as bad. Next +12. Named Armimieres Beltant.

Ok here we go, pretty far from the first two agents. In .8 space... If you point at a system lines will come out connecting to all systems nearby who have jumpgates linked. Look at those connecting systems. Pretty much if you see any tint of orange, it means .4 or lower. Bold yellow is .5, greens and blues are .6 and above.

I always look at the agents system, connecting systems, and systems connecting to those since agents rarely send you more than two hops away to blow up something.

We have found you a safe agent in safe space where you can blow things up for her all day long, collect loot, make money, etc, etc.

Her name is Armimieres Beltant and she is located in Mirilene.

Its very important that you choose a npc corporation to work for and stick with agents solely in that corporation. The reasoning is that as you work for this level one agent you will gain standing increases with this agent. As you gain increases with the agent you gain increases with the agents coporation which in turn gives you access to higher quality agents and higher level agents. Higher level agents rule. Aula has a qual +17 agent in a .3 system who is level 4. If she ignores loot cans and just mission runs she makes well over 100million a day.

Hope the above helped, you can use it to literally work for anyone so if you dont want to work for your military, simply look up a different npc corporation.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:19 pm 
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Posting Whore
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Yeah I figured that much out already! They just don't pay crap...

Very good tutorial though! :wink:

Dev

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"So...if crazy people don't know their crazy...does that mean your only sane if your know your crazy?"


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:51 pm 
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Journeyman
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welll ive never heard of a mmo that didnt make you grind to get to the good stuff :P

so get grinding heehee. otherwise your simply going to need to join a good active corp and group up for complex's and mining ops.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:37 pm 
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Posting Whore
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Location: Colorado Springs, Co.
You know....Eve would be a pretty good game....IF THEY COULD KEEP THE SERVERS UP! :twisted:

Damn thing has gone out on me every night!

Dev

_________________
"So...if crazy people don't know their crazy...does that mean your only sane if your know your crazy?"


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:38 pm 
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Posting Whore
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Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 6:21 pm
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Location: Colorado Springs, Co.
Well, well, well.....

The hard part of learning this game is not the game itself, its learning about the people who play it. I use the term "people" loosely...

There was an article on one of the gaming sites that professed EVE has some of the friendliest players of any game out there. Not really sure which game they were playing but they obviously were not playing EVE.

So far here is what I've found.

You can earn a 4 year collage degree before you get the maximum skills allowed in the game. In the time it takes to build a titan (the biggest ship) you could get a Masters...

The people are friendly to a degree but only if it serves for their amusement. Everyone is your friend as long as you have something they want which is to be expected in all online games but EVE's patrons seem to be twisted beyond the norm.

The first time I got podded (died) it was by 8 Dread Gur...what ever the hell they are space pirate NPC's parked at a jump gate. The second time I got podded was in deep 0.0 sector (The free for all rompus room)running a mission, that was my bad for trying it. The third time was by one of Paigelores buddy from Shea's Bar of oppression. It seems roleplaying is not allowed in the roleplaying bar...go figure.

99% of the woman in game are actually men/boys/mental patients... Who do not have chips on their shoulders, they have the entire planets balanced. The minority of "good" players whom I've bumped into like the game but complain about the rude people.

0.5 through 1.0 is safe but will not make you any money which is required to actually advance in the game since you have to buy your skills to upload into your "Pod" some skills cost hundreds of millions... Low sector is a free for all where everyone is fair game and those who have played for years rule with an iron fist. Not part of their Corp?....*BOOM!* there are a few low sector Corps who will not normally attack, very rare though and while they may not attack your still fair game for everyone else...

No wonder the people who play this seem to have "issues". Being paranoid 24/7 has that effect, especially when you cannot trust "anyone" as Corp spies are rampant, people who join Corps to loot their hangers after earning trust are a dime a dozen and most people who've been around seem to have the focus of a gnat. *sigh*

If your looking for;
1. PVP = this is your game, thats what its all about.
2. PVE = then you have to go low sector to make money or you'll be banging your head on the inside of that "Pod" at how tiresome running loops around the same system can get.
3. Looking at asteroids = Boy have we got fun for you! Hours upon hours of looking at!.....rocks..... :shock: (Just so someone who you met yesterday can scream at you for not hauling or mining it fast enough to make them rich).
4. Setting in a station talking nasty in chat to members of the same sex = WHOLLY CRAP! You hit the freaking lotto!!! :P
5. Getting podded for making fun of those sitting in a station talking nasty in chat to members of the same sex! = DUDE! You will feel right at home!
6. Being lied too = BINGO! People you thought you might have known will knife you in the back at the drop of a hat to gain the respect and admiration of the person they were talking nasty to in chat.... :shock: (Seems to be a whole world of nasty chat talking...or in this case the entire gallaxy).
7. Like being bored to tears = CHA-CHING! If you've made it this far then your a future EVE player!

Picture yourself playing "Freelancer"...for years... (personally I love the game and have played it off and on for years, but...Freelancer was better)...then you can get an idea of what EVE is.

Yeah I'm an EVE player....*Yawn* Just to prove to myself I can, I will keep playing a while longer so I can hit the 1 billion ISK mark and sell it on ebay to get the $45 bucks I've wasted so far on it back.

Dev

_________________
"So...if crazy people don't know their crazy...does that mean your only sane if your know your crazy?"


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:08 am 
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Posting Whore
Posting Whore

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 6:21 pm
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Location: Colorado Springs, Co.
Change order #238-1347-23-234

As a long term solution to the afore mentioned problems with the game I have decided to take over the universe and "pod" those who displease me!

It's Gimp Ganking Time! Now I just need three years of training to whoop everyones ass... :?

Actually I opened a sub-site from my personal webpage for my own in game chat channel. Designed to be a hub for in game channels to promote role-playing in a more "healthy" fashion.

I never knew you could dial a 1-900-###-#### on your computer until I payed to play this game...my how lost the little children have become, all the breadcrumbs have been gobbled up, oh where will they go?! :(

Well follow me little children, I'll take thee away too a magical garden. (It was a good movie, I don't care what anyone says! Besides...she was hot...I would have followed her any where).

http://serpentsmoon.com/neuts_bar.htm

Dev

_________________
"So...if crazy people don't know their crazy...does that mean your only sane if your know your crazy?"


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:41 am 
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Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:14 am
Posts: 93
Dev Viperrious wrote:
Well, well, well.....

The hard part of learning this game is not the game itself, its learning about the people who play it. I use the term "people" loosely...

There was an article on one of the gaming sites that professed EVE has some of the friendliest players of any game out there. Not really sure which game they were playing but they obviously were not playing EVE.

So far here is what I've found.

You can earn a 4 year collage degree before you get the maximum skills allowed in the game. In the time it takes to build a titan (the biggest ship) you could get a Masters...


Quite true. But for the total skills its actually longer :P


Dev Viperrious wrote:
The third time was by one of Paigelores buddy from Shea's Bar of oppression. It seems roleplaying is not allowed in the roleplaying bar...go figure.


I know whom you refer to and that person is NOT on my buddy buddy list m'kay? 90% of the people in shea's I don't recall ever even having a complete conversation with. That person is a budd buddy of david and todes, both of whom got irked when you left their crossdressing corp heehee.

Dev Viperrious wrote:
99% of the woman in game are actually men/boys/mental patients... Who do not have chips on their shoulders, they have the entire planets balanced. The minority of "good" players whom I've bumped into like the game but complain about the rude people.


About the males playing females, got a problem with it?!? heehee. I like to think I dont have a chip on my shoulder but I do see your point. I've lost count of the number of males playing females with a natural urge to smack talk anyone not female. And if you are female ingame then they try to have sex with you. Aula's played that dodge ball game hiding from more than one minmatar female heh.

Dev Viperrious wrote:
0.5 through 1.0 is safe but will not make you any money which is required to actually advance in the game since you have to buy your skills to upload into your "Pod" some skills cost hundreds of millions... Low sector is a free for all where everyone is fair game and those who have played for years rule with an iron fist. Not part of their Corp?....*BOOM!* there are a few low sector Corps who will not normally attack, very rare though and while they may not attack your still fair game for everyone else...


Ok, lets see....you can make plenty of money in high sec, just find a system without gobs of other players. Or find a nice high quality agent in .5 space. They'll pay real well. Got to remember, until you reach level 3 agents you're really not going to make money agent running, and until you reach lvl4 missions any mining op will make you more money. Of course...lvl4 is worth it. Pay dirt my friend. You hit that and you can hang out in public channels pissing off miners. Everytime I quote aula's average profit margin in any channel at least one miner always says "man im in the wrong profession". Its a treadmil, and your already one step ahead of all the other treadmill runners in eve. You already own a freakin battleship. I still say you need to set it aside and quit using it on level 2 missions. Its entirely to much overkill and is incrediably boring. Get a battlecruiser for lvl2's.

Getting money for things you need early on. Ok face facts, all new players who have never played eve before NEED to get into a sizable high sec player corp of decent population. Most player corps in high sec will help or completely pay for your skill book training, and usually they also provide ships. You have had the misfortunte of joining a corp that has more of todes alts in it than actual individual players. Get in a good one and you'll be set.

Dev Viperrious wrote:
No wonder the people who play this seem to have "issues". Being paranoid 24/7 has that effect, especially when you cannot trust "anyone" as Corp spies are rampant, people who join Corps to loot their hangers after earning trust are a dime a dozen and most people who've been around seem to have the focus of a gnat. *sigh*


Keep all your belongings in your personal hangar and corp looting isn't an issue. Most corps are quite detailed in how they allow access and who they allow access to and for what hangar floors in the corp. As a member of the corp, keep nothing that belongs to you in the corp hangar. As a corp ceo...well, keep the important stuff in your personal hangar, keep the junk in the public one.

Dev Viperrious wrote:
If your looking for;
1. PVP = this is your game, thats what its all about.
2. PVE = then you have to go low sector to make money or you'll be banging your head on the inside of that "Pod" at how tiresome running loops around the same system can get.
3. Looking at asteroids = Boy have we got fun for you! Hours upon hours of looking at!.....rocks..... :shock: (Just so someone who you met yesterday can scream at you for not hauling or mining it fast enough to make them rich).
4. Setting in a station talking nasty in chat to members of the same sex = WHOLLY CRAP! You hit the freaking lotto!!! :P
5. Getting podded for making fun of those sitting in a station talking nasty in chat to members of the same sex! = DUDE! You will feel right at home!
6. Being lied too = BINGO! People you thought you might have known will knife you in the back at the drop of a hat to gain the respect and admiration of the person they were talking nasty to in chat.... :shock: (Seems to be a whole world of nasty chat talking...or in this case the entire gallaxy).
7. Like being bored to tears = CHA-CHING! If you've made it this far then your a future EVE player!


1. Yep. Sad fact but a true one.
2. See number 1. The game triples in size the day you go pvp. But being in production also keeps a large variety of options open to you as far as things to do.
3. Man...that one cracked me up. But strangely I love mining. Set my lasers, look up every minute or so, read a book. roleplay in one of the 5 bars im currently involved in.
4. I've permanently turned off blink for local when in .5 and higher. I also never ever ever go into gallente empire chat. Man its messy and sticky in there. Silly perverse gallente.
5. Stay in high sec and you can insult them all you like.
6. You've had a bad career thus far in eve. I need to find you a nice sizable corp for you to join to show you how positive this bloody game can be :)
7. Your bored because your in a one man corp by yourself, you run a rp bar with 4 or 5 regulars, and your sitting in a battleship running missions designed for cruisers and battle cruisers :) Get back in shea's, insult todes till you get it out of your system. Believe me, 2-3 insults to her jugular really shuts her up for hours. Get out of your one man all by myself corp, and get a thorax or whatever the battlecruiser is, then go run missions. lvl2's in a thorax will be ALOT more exciting.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:55 am 
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Journeyman
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Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:14 am
Posts: 93
Dev Viperrious wrote:
Change order #238-1347-23-234

As a long term solution to the afore mentioned problems with the game I have decided to take over the universe and "pod" those who displease me!

It's Gimp Ganking Time! Now I just need three years of training to whoop everyones ass... :?


Merlin, 2 rockets 2 blasters, mwd, warp scram, target jamer, pdu's in low. Find a .4 system, go out to the belts, find a lone miner, lock, jam, scram, then open fire on them. drop them to half hull then demand ransom. if they pay immediately, great. if not, pop them. walla, your on your way to taking over the world :P

Dev Viperrious wrote:

I like your bar, abit quiet though. needs more regulars. I'm in like 5 or 6 bars now, but you wouldnt like any of them because like me sitting in all of them there are people in each that sit in others. So you see alot of regular names across the spectrum. Each bar does have its own unique patronage though.

Wish I could take you into those other bars but I know you would hate it. Ashar is in all of them except yours. And todes is in 4 of them. I dont mind todes personally, when she inflicts her rp on me I inflict it back. Nothing's funnier than watching nathan loose his temper on her. Really really shuts her up.

Ashar's alot nicer than you think, she's definitely amarr. prim proper, you can almost feel her looking down at you when she rp's. And she reacted on kemsit that night because he was as i understand it openly threatening every sister who walked in the bar. It upset and irritated anumber of members, sisters and non sisters. So she temporaraily removed kemsit, spoke to him, then let him back in.

Alot more shades of grey to that situation than you may or may not of been aware of.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:02 am 
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Journeyman
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Dev Viperrious wrote:
You know....Eve would be a pretty good game....IF THEY COULD KEEP THE SERVERS UP! :twisted:

Damn thing has gone out on me every night!

Dev


Absolutely agree on this one. I figure the reason the bugs are persisting is two things. Up until now all features had to be tested and comfirmed to be functional on every version of windows from 98SE and beyond.

About a week ago microsoft dropped all support for windows platforms that were not win2k or winxp. CCP followed suit and I suspect we may actually see abit better server performance as they address the bugs as they stand from the perspective of 2 operating systems instead of attempting 4 operating systems.

Also, the new client is comming and I think they are simply focusing on it and letting certain ingame bugs ride out. I can't be certain on this suspicion of course.

I also think that despite their efforts they will eventually realize that one server for 100k subscribers simply isnt going to happen. It wont, its not possible. They have a 75% / 25% ratio of high sec to low sec players so they either expand on the high sec borders or open up another US server.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:28 pm 
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Posting Whore
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To the Corp part, I will never join another ingame corp. Will not happen with Dev...EVER! Ok I'm thinking about joining one but don't get your hopes up. T.V.S. was created for a reason and I will not abandon that reason.
(EDIT) This from the guy who refuses to join a Corp! :P

Kemsit= I was there when it happened, I saw all the shades of grey I care to see and Karnor is a 100% dickhead just like his alt was in our old corp of course you never saw those shades of grey...

Missions= I'm actually doing level 3's but to me they suck after the patch. Nothing but one huge gankfest.

The Battleship= Don't worry about it since it got destroyed last night while running a level 3 mission after being sucked dry of electricity by NPC's while I was using 3 large vamps pulling 330 units from 3 of their Tier II Battle cruisers....There was over 8 BC's and 30 other ships. Don't know if that's normal for a level 3 mission or not but I found it a little odd.

As far as the bar, well that just takes time. If people come so be it, if people don't thats ok too. You forget the biggest part of all..."I don't play well with others!"

Todes can fall off the face of the planet for all I care and really haven't thought about going back to Shea's and most likely never will. Todes was not the only one there I left because of. If you don't really talk to anyone there...why go? That makes even less sense than me leaving to stick up for someones honor after they were banned for roleplaying their character. (Thats the part I think you forgot)

If it comes to choosing to do the "right" thing or the normal thing of keep your mouth shut and cower in the corner I will "ALWAYS" do the right thing. Shea's is not the "right" thing...

Neut's is there and will be so long as I play. If your hanging out in 5-6 different places then obviously they lack something your looking for. I think long term and I'm not a quick fix kind of person. So far the supposed "RP Channels" of EVE have been judged by their peers and found wanting.

Dev

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:08 pm 
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Journeyman
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-smiles-

alot of good points :)

and alot of good points about sheas etc.

true true, i have no arguement.

about that lvl3, either something is seriously wrong bug wise or they have seriously changed the difficulty of the agent levels.

wow...

oh hey, ill be back in about 35 days. taking a complete break from eve, all 4 characters are fiddling with bship 5 so when aula and nate return in about 35 days they will have bship 5 completed.

outmode and causa wont be making reappearances. 4 accounts is 2 too many.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:21 am 
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Journeyman
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well that didnt last long.

wifey made me reactivate aula's account. said i was tormenting her. heehee. only aula though. all other characters are history.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:10 pm 
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Posting Whore
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Location: Colorado Springs, Co.
Thought Aula was your best character? Why would you delete her?

So by saying you'd be back in 35 days you mean you found another game to play.. :wink: Gotcha!

Dev

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:16 am 
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Journeyman
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Been awhile, thought I'd blah blah on whats eve and all that.

Stability : 100% improvement. Servers went down for 24hours last week, major major hardware upgrades across the board. The lag you used to experience when there were 70 people in local you now see only when there are 140+ in local. Major improvements! Also there have been no crashes or unexpected downtime since the upgrades, we have had two mini patches addressing other bugs and whatnot.

Whats coming : The singularity server(test center) has all the Kali pt1 content on it...and a 200 waiting line to get in to play with it all heh. I logged in, grabbed the new tier3 minmatar battleship called the maelstrom and screenshoted it in space. Fiddled with its setup, then logged out. That server goes down 2-3 times a day for patches and fixes and whatnot. The amount of testing assistance that the players are giving to kali is a first in eve history for any patch, we may see a 90% bug free kali at release in late november.

What I'm upto : Aula is retired. 16million skill points, she runs level four missions with her eyes closed all day long. I'm bored. I need a challenge, and I'm tired of playing/rp'ing a female. I have one account now, Aula is on it, she has her own corp called Homeguard. No pvp, no low sec, just afew agent running friends and whoever likes to mine here and there.

Also on the account is my active character. Nathan Paige the minmatar heh. His learning skills are finished, half his minmatar ship command skills are maxed, and he just got a set of +4's plugged into his head. He is running level 2 and 3 missions in his cyclone, by the time he reaches level 4 missions kali will be live and I'll put him straight into the maelstrom. Its a heavy shield tank with the exact mid/low slot space as aula's raven so he will simply inherit all of her shield tanking equipment when he's ready.

No one can dispute eve's graphics, and I've taken to screenshotting and using fraps too. I'll toss up a video sometime when I complete one, but here's the screenshots.

Persnal Favorites
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190 ... lasher.png
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190 ... 19halo.png
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190 ... 14halo.png
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190 ... lstrom.png
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190 ... enhalo.png
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190 ... combat.png
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190 ... morant.png

All of those and all the rest are here
http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m190 ... %20online/

Enjoy :)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:27 pm 
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Peanut Gallery
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Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2002 8:53 pm
Posts: 1864
Location: Hayward, CA
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/vi ... -They-Keep

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