Ryandor.com

Forums
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:20 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:01 am 
Offline
Grand Master
Grand Master

Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:54 am
Posts: 971
I tend to think of Orbsydia overall as a good site and a good resource. Its one of my regular stops and the community over there is overall a good one, people share alot and there isn't a whole lot of in-fighting and stuff so its a nice place to hang out.

However, I do have to question Orb's "ownership" of some of the programs it hosts. I doubt that the authors of most of the programs have signed over any rights to "Orbsydia" as an entity or Khaybel as an individual. UOA in particular was open-sourced by its author a long time ago, so it kind of irks me when they try to hold back the source or the executable because I don't believe it is really theirs to control. I do appreciate their support of tool development, I just don't agree with some of their philosophies about "owning" the programs.

I am also totally against the concept of paid accounts in order to get access to things like downloads. This is a hobby, not a business. Donations I am ok with, "Elite Accounts" to pay for what should be basic priviledges on a UO EMU related site I am not ok with. At that point, the site becomes a liability to this community because it shifts focus away from "sharing". If the tool authors want to be paid for the tools they should sell them or release them as shareware and that I would support.

_________________
-= HellRazor =-
Shattered Sosaria is coming!
http://www.shatteredsosaria.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:35 pm 
Offline
Posting Whore
Posting Whore

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 6:21 pm
Posts: 1434
Location: Colorado Springs, Co.
*CLAPS INSANELY*

Well said! Communities cannot be "bought" through payment, that's called "greed" which has destroyed many sites and groups in the past.

"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it..." Quote from some wise historical dude who's name eludes me at the moment. :wink:

Dev

_________________
"So...if crazy people don't know their crazy...does that mean your only sane if your know your crazy?"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:14 pm 
Offline
Young
Young

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2002 2:37 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Canada, BC
No Point in Talking here ...have a good day

_________________
Khaybel
OrBSydia DevNetwork

what is sleep?


Last edited by Khaybel on Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:43 pm 
Offline
Grand Master
Grand Master

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:29 pm
Posts: 414
Khaybel wrote:
what you do in your spare time is up to you, your all very talented programmers, and architects, and other. Why not use your time more constructively like building cool tools and improving your own uo development projects, than fussing over what my tos may or may not say.


You asked all users to read and understand. that is why I read them. And frankly, they where not user friendly. I stated what I believed they said. And asked users, just as you did, to understand them. Since this, you have changed them, for the better, which I acknowledged. But frankly, I dont understand why one would be upset about users discussing TOS. One should want users to understand, exaclty what they are (as you yourself requested.). And perhaps understand in a different light, what they say, and make some changes (which for whatever reason, you did after you asked people to understand).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:24 pm 
Offline
Young
Young

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2002 2:37 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Canada, BC
No Point in Talking here ...have a good day

_________________
Khaybel
OrBSydia DevNetwork

what is sleep?


Last edited by Khaybel on Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:29 pm 
Offline
Grand Master
Grand Master

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:29 pm
Posts: 414
Agreed, was responding to your observation!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:04 am 
Offline
Grand Master
Grand Master

Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:54 am
Posts: 971
Hi Rob,

Quote:
To avoid mass downloads and huge bandwidth bills everymonth, I require that people have a verified basic free account (free on the site) before they can download files.


Understandable. Hobby or not, it costs $$$. I imagine the bandwidth can be a real issue, depending on who your ISP is. And again, I have no issue at all with donations. I'm pretty sure I've donated to Orbsydia in the past myself, I've also donated to both Ryandor and RunUO.

This may have changed (not sure?), but one of the problems with the basic account was that the daily transfer limit was so restrictive that you might be able to download a few .uoa files and that was it. So in reality, you couldn't really download with a basic account. Again, this may not still be accurate, it was at one time but you may have fixed it since then, but its one of the reasons I brought it up.

Quote:
As for core team members they own direct copyright to the tools and programs they make. OrBSydia does not own these, but they have kinda shared there talents and skills with members of the orbsydia community.


Yes, but what this whole debate about was the Orb TOS that has been included with programs that are not written by Orb. A TOS indicates authority to issue a TOS, as in ownership of the program.

As I said before, I do appreciate Orbysida for being a great resource, for running the site and hosting the files. I was only piping in about the whole TOS issue.

Quote:
UOAR 2.4 was released to the masses as open source, I've never hid that and anyone asking for it in the past I've given it to aka HellRazor, you know better.


What I meant by that was, during the recent downtime at Orbsydia, when others attempted to post links or to host UOAR or UOL until Orb came back online, they were told by yourself and other Orb community members not to post links, and in fact those that posted links were asked to remove them. Again, to do this implies ownership of the programs. I think to do that changes the nature of Orbsydia (knowingly or unknowingly) from a place that consolidates utilities to a place that attempts to control the utilities it hosts.

Yes, during that period you did provide the source and executable on request, and in fact, in those threads where people were told not to post links to the programs, I would usually pipe in and direct them to you.

You were kind enough to send me a copy of the source earlier as well when I asked you, which I appreciated! (although I had previously gotten the source from Xandor before that, I had lost it). But since Xandor open sourced it, the source really should be made available publically in my opinion.

But anyway, that's not my point, my point is that by telling people they can't post links to a program, you are implying that you own the programs and you're exerting control over something that really isn't yours to control. And this was during a period when Orb was offline and they weren't otherwise available.

Personally I don't see any harm in someone posting a link to something so that people can access it during the site redesign.

Quote:
When I read threads like this on this site it feels like this is what your doing about orbsydia ... I've always been here to help those that ask for help and led a hand when asked, with out having any type some secret agenda.


I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm not trying to bash you or Orbsydia. I'm just posting some opinions and observations on the TOS issue. As I've said here on Ryandor elsewhere in the past, I think the more UO EMU support sites there are, the better off we all are. Orb in particular is a great resource with a great community. The .uoa file archive by itself would make Orb a stellar site, having all the other stuff there available for download is icing on the cake.

_________________
-= HellRazor =-
Shattered Sosaria is coming!
http://www.shatteredsosaria.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:44 pm 
Offline
Young
Young

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2002 2:37 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Canada, BC
No Point in Talking here ...have a good day

feel free to delete my account

_________________
Khaybel
OrBSydia DevNetwork

what is sleep?


Last edited by Khaybel on Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:37 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 11:21 am
Posts: 78
Wasn't Orbs on the verge of dying at one point? Doors closed and everything? What the hell happened?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:45 pm 
Offline
Not your daddy
Not your daddy

Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2002 2:18 am
Posts: 1224
Location: Oregon State
Quote:
And this is where you all seen to miss read my TOS and go off on your own tangents.


tangents, huh... discussing the definition of someones questionable terms of service is a tangent? You asked for people to read and understand it, then have the nerve to insult the entire group of people that wish to ask for clarification? True, there were a few things said here that were out of line, but most discussion here was exactly what you asked of people.. to understand. Understanding in most cases does rely on discussion, debate and stuff like that, doesnt it? I find it quite disgusting that you would have the nerve to say such a thing directed to everyone here discussing the topic.

Thanks Khaybel, for shining your true self. I just really wish you would open your eyes and give the rest of the world a little credit, for not everyone is as blind, stupid or ignorant to things as you seem to think.

_________________
Forget what you know, know what you forget.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:42 pm 
Offline
Peanut Gallery
Peanut Gallery
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2002 8:53 pm
Posts: 1864
Location: Hayward, CA
I do not think what you said was offensive, Khaybel.

*sings*

Why can't we be friends?

Why can't we be friends?

Why can't we be friends?

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:45 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 11:21 am
Posts: 78
Sydius wrote:
Why can't we be friends?


Different places. Different Faces.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:17 am 
Offline
Grand Master
Grand Master

Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:54 am
Posts: 971
Rob, we're not talking about the Orbsydia web site itself, we're talking about the applications hosted on the web site. And the issue isn't having a TOS for the web site, its some of the questionable terms in the TOS. Unless I am missing something, your web site TOS says that once a program is uploaded to Orbsydia, it can't be uploaded anywhere else without Orbsydia's (i.e., your) permission. Am I wrong?

Not only is this unenforceable, but I would think the author of the program has the say on where his program can and can't be hosted. Again, the main program I have in mind is UOAR, which is an open sourced program. You were ordering people not to put it online anywhere when Orb was down so that you could make it available at Orb exclusively. That's just wrong.

My whole point is, Orbsydia as an entity doesn't own any of the utilities it hosts. They are owned by their individual authors, not by "Orbsydia", unless the author chooses to make it an "Orbsydia" exclusive program (and no doubt a few authors have done so, but then again, there are other programs where the authors have not done so).

I believe one of the entire reasons this topic has come up is that I have been encouraging punt to add UOAR support to some of his utilities. Stuff like your TOS has discouraged him from doing so, he'd rather not even mess with it if he has to wade through stuff like that. So I felt obligated to pipe in here and state that UOAR is not "owned" by Orbsydia and that your TOS can not apply to that particular program.

Again, you and Orb do a lot of good stuff for the EMU community. I just sometimes think you get too wrapped around the axle on trying to control the stuff you host in an effort to drive traffic to the site. The site can stand on its own and I'm sure most authors wouldn't mind having their apps hosted there, but I would bet not too many would be very keen about giving up rights to their own programs to do so!

_________________
-= HellRazor =-
Shattered Sosaria is coming!
http://www.shatteredsosaria.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:16 pm 
Offline
Grand Master
Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:57 am
Posts: 472
Sydius wrote:
I think people just need to laugh at themselves.

I laugh at themselves(?) all the time.

_________________
-= Ho Eyo He Hum =-


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group