Ryandor.com

Haha, thirded Syd!

Now too bad you can't have multiple players connect to a server you can setup.

I hope that will be the next incarnation of the Elder Scrolls, an online form of it. Something where you can setup your own server and add in NPC's creatures, etc. to your own desire.

I've tried the breakpoint values, and it doesn't seem to work. You still find people who grind their butt off and get to that top level no matter what. I guess it will be something for players to try out and give feedback on. So later on I'll probably add in the breakpoint values.

_________________
Demuria Studios

No, that is really the biggest problem with MMO. It doesn't matter what your engine, rule system, graphics, etc are in the end..it is the people.
And you can't do anything about the people except ban them. Of course if you banned everyone then there is noone left to play. So yes, we need to come up with systems to encourage people to play the way we want them to.

I'm all for Siege Perilous type rules. I think there is far more interaction when everyone is limited to 1 toon, because when you can't have a craft mule for every occassion you actually need other people and the craftsmen are every bit as important as the killing types. You think twice before you go killing the miners when you can't get a new sword or armor without a friendly blacksmith. Of course the diehards pay for an extra account (or two or three) and being free our only real option is to allow only 1 connection per ip address, but that isn't without its problems either.

_________________
This space for rent.

If you require admin setup for new accounts you can easily filter out most of the powergamers and get people that wanna play for the sake of *gasp* playing a game.

I intend to allow only 1 toon per account, and only one account per person (and with gm/admin status it's easy to see if they're playing 2 accts via IP). I'm sure you can still get those people with two isp's or liars that claim it's their friend/family/whatever playing on a 2nd computer at their house, but it filters the majority at least.

I want the player interaction required on my shard, I don't want any one-size-fits-all chars that can tank and nuke and craft, and I don't want any accounts that relog to their alchemist to make some potions to give to their fighter that gets the mobs killed to get the loot to give to their etc etc.

If they don't like my opinion of how things should be run, they can play elsewhere. It's no skin off my back, me and the staff will be happy to play alone... build for yourself, people with your likes and tastes will come.

The type of players these new(er) mmo's are attracting and breeding are horrible. They don't understand how to have fun anymore, because the gaming companies don't understand how to build fun anymore. They think only to keep people playing via long and tedius questing and grinding and increasingly higher end-game content, but destroyed the community aspect in the process of doing it. The community is what keeps people playing.

Thats because they found out it makes money! So they stopped hiring players who knew how to program and replaced them with programmers who know how to make money.

They shouldn't let you program computer games without at least 20 years of pen and paper game experience.

Kids don't care about community...they can always buy another community off E-bay. They don't care about game play, they can buy all the items they cannot get ingame from some power farmer. No worry about money...for $15.00 you can get 50 million credits or coins.

The net was the birth of online games...and at the same time it's the death of online games. Catch 22...

Dev

_________________
"So...if crazy people don't know their crazy...does that mean your only sane if your know your crazy?"

Yeah, look at EA and todays UO.
If you didn't get all the crap you wanted for xmas you can buy a set of 8 now for only $12.99, that's right $12.99 act now and we'll throw in this free set of skinning knives (in neon colors of your choice), but that's not all, we're also going to throw in a free unique useless piece of house clutter (also in neon colors of your choice). Don't delay. Order today!

Got a large family of twinks to feed. Why we can sell you a bundle of 5 accounts for $139.99. And if they are too lazy to build their own toons they can buy an advanced one for just $29.99.

Don't like the shard you play on anymore, for just $19.99 you can move your toons to another shard with all their neon colored crap intact.

5 mules not enough for you? Why don't you add a 6th for just $19.99, we'll even throw in a set of noobie clothes in random neon colors.

_________________
This space for rent.

Wow, this is the perfect post.

I completely agree. UO pwns

And when you start moding it and changing things its like a deathgrip on your mind.....its always there and you cannot escape.

However there are a lot of single player rpgs that i enjoy.

Fable: Lost Chapters

the most recent one im looking at: Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (next generation roleplaying game that my friends have been bragging to me about)

Whats happening is games are goign for better graphics and shitty gameplay. People tell me uo sucks just cuz of the graphics, but fuck em.

coldfire returns!! plenty of time to work again because im running off unemployment.
omg i came here in 2002, and its 2006 Holy crap im old!!

Add me to icq if u want old friends 164059823

_________________
Woot New Sig!!

Oblivion plays nice too, it is one of the few games with awesome graphics and great gameplay. In my mind.

It keeps me coming back to it!


As far as UO, yeah, the EMU scene for it is awesome. As old as the game is, it is one of the few that allow you to essentially create an RPG how you want.

_________________
Demuria Studios

People grind because of competition and instant gratification. Getting a little "exp" message is instantly gratifying, and seeing so many other players around you whom are so much higher is demoralizing unless you can reach some sort of ceiling that they are at as quickly as possible.

In the case of fighters, a lot of it has to do with staying roughly the same level as your friends, so that you can effectively adventure together, or for PvP reasons, or simply for moneymaking or exploration reasons. For merchants, the pressures of the higher-end merchants can force younger ones out of the player market until they reach equivalent levels of ability in regards to item production.

There are many ways to fight this battle, but in my opinion, the only way to truly win it is permadeath and single character/account.

That also destroys many potential economical issues, if you take their property upon death and do not allow the post-death transfer of possessions.

In the end, even buggy items and players would cycle out of the system. New players would not feel discouraged since there would be a substantially high number of new players, and the desire to grind would be less so with the knowledge that the rewards would be all too temporary.

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net

I think also there should be useful items for every level of the crafts.

That way new crafters entering the workforce still have a chance, while the higher level crafters don't feel overburdened with work.

Oh well, I guess it is going to be interesting when I open my server.

_________________
Demuria Studios

The Perma-Death method would not work as well since it would frustrate players into quiting with that all to familiar "Whats the point, I'm just going to die!" syndrom.

I think the middle ground would be to have players "age"...this way they eventually fade out of the game and keep the cycle of gamers happy. Perhaps they could create a new character towards the end of the old characters life cycle to take over the kingdom or peasant farm. Two years should be more than enough for an online characters life cycle.

This would serve two fold since the player would be required to find an ingame life partner to do the nasty with thus creating their replacement. Throw in some random factors for deformities, death at birth, killing the mother during birth, disease and other wickedly mean possible outcomes and *Poof!* you can keep the players happy while providing a means of controling those out of control uber e-gay gods with papa credit card.

On the part of Oblivion...I...umm..yeah...got a copy today and come to find out...its in FRENCH! Bastards...So now I'm working on...yeah...OH! I had a puppy once!

Dev

_________________
"So...if crazy people don't know their crazy...does that mean your only sane if your know your crazy?"

Yeah, permadeath while an interesting idea just can't be implemented in a fun way. Who would go out and risk life and limb adventuring if there was permadeath? The reason we all sit at home and play our little games is because the real world has permadeath.

It's funny Dev, all the concepts you bring up were in a vaporware game called....I think it was Horizons or Dawn or some shit like that. They just had such an amazing list of features that it was all too good to be true.

Oh yeah, Oblivion rules!

_________________
This space for rent.

Arcade games in the 80ies had permadeath. So did every game on the Commodore 64, which is the most-selling home computer of all time. So did games on Nintendo/other consoles, though many of them had "codes" you could enter to jump directly to certain levels etc.

Granted, you invest much more in your MMOG/MMORPG-characters than you did in those kind of games, so it's not really that good an analogy, but I think perhaps it might have a little bit to do with the mentality of gamers these days. Back in the day, we didn't go around demanding no "Save Anywhere/Anytime"-features in the games, we played the game, we died, we played it over again - and we were happy while doing so.

_________________
-= Ho Eyo He Hum =-

Had to have been Dawn since Horizons is a current online game that I've actually played. Good premise...horrible game...

Arcade games are nothing like RPG's, they were not true permadeath since you could deposite another 25 cents and go again from where you left off on quite a few. You also got more than one life per game, normally 3-5 lives depending on what the machine was set for.

You could always give players so many lives before they get permadeath just like the games but I still do not like the idea of permadeath. Players would feel humiliated after griefers axe them enmass for shits and giggles or a single mistake cost them everything they have worked for. What if the shard lags out?...whole new generation starting over?

A good online game has to be fault tolerant as well as fun. The nice thing about a private shard is that it can be customized to a specific set of rules that players can opt to addopt or move on to find a shard they like. You also cannot buy items for them on E-Gay...I would actually respect someone decked out in arties on a private shard (other than the owner or GM) quicker than a public server since most of them "cheat" to get them buy purchasing them.

E-Bay has been the greatest cause of errosion in the online community. Ok so its the people who make a living selling items on E-Bay...Penalty of Death!

Dev

_________________
"So...if crazy people don't know their crazy...does that mean your only sane if your know your crazy?"

Ah, but don't forget all the poorly run private shards who give away l33t neon arties (and even GM powers) to anyone who will even bother to log in.

_________________
-= HellRazor =-
Shattered Sosaria is coming!
http://www.shatteredsosaria.com

Regarding perma-death... that is entirely the sort of mentality that causes grinding.

The whole idea is that players would either drop the "must be better than everybody else" mentality and play as though it were a temporary game, or move on and not play at all. Either way, no (or little) grinding in the long term.

The goal is to say to players, "Items and high skill levels are not necessary for fun; they are a side-effect of fun. Competition for items and high skill levels highly encourages grinding, so all items and skill levels are purely temporary."

Yes, some people demand huge investments in items and skill levels out of their characters in RPGs, especially since that is the sort of mentality that made you succeed in today's MMOs. Those people will not play.

Those who remain will not play to achieve ever-higher levels of treasure and experience, but will play purely for the sake of, well, playing. They will adventure with their friends not because they want some new item or a higher level, but because they enjoy the adventure.

Everything in the game world would have so much more value, and yet, be less important.

Obviously it would be geared much more towards role-players (even casual) than power-gamers, but hey, isn't that the whole point? Power gamers = grinders.

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net

TES games in online form always made people drool but... it'll kill it.
The whole thing about TES series is that they're awesome, absolutely beautiful single player games.

I agree. Part of the fun, to me, is that it is a single-player game where *cough* I am not competing with other players in my subconscious. I have no desire to grind or rush through it, and can enjoy the scenery. The second you make it an MMO, I think, "OMG everdamnbody is gunna be higher than meeee! Grindgrindgrind!"

...

Unless it has perma-death.

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net

Boy did this thread get side tracked... I have a gold fish!

What level is everyone so I can catch up later!

Dev

_________________
"So...if crazy people don't know their crazy...does that mean your only sane if your know your crazy?"

The key is - make the game more fun to play as an RPG than it is to play as a "level grind". To do that they need to turn their focus to what makes the MMOG most unique, the human interaction.

As flawed and corrupt as it was, OSI probably came closest with their old in-game events and Seer programs.

_________________
-= HellRazor =-
Shattered Sosaria is coming!
http://www.shatteredsosaria.com

I wasn't saying making TES an MMO, but make it where you could possibly have a server running, and allow players to log in to it. Sure, you will have those who have no life and grind. But I would love to adventure with a few friends of mine who have found some really cool places in the game. Which of course I haven't found yet.

It would be also neat to have someone with you for some of those quests! Maybe a thief type character, so while you distract the uber dude, your partner in crime hides and sneak attacks it.

Maybe not focus on the online aspect of it, but possibly just allow people to setup servers for their friends to log in.

_________________
Demuria Studios

Having a wide range of interactive items, even if otherwise useless, helps a whole lot. That is one thing they did right, until those items became neon colored.

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net

-runs in, pokes sydius rose and sharlenwar, then runs back out-

The statement about paper games is quite funny, but not usefull. But if we're talking MMORPG, the least they could do is learn the AD&D rules, and play the game actively to get inspiration.

About community... what we get is what we had a loooong time ago. 90% of the population consists of lemmings. If you want them to get creative, you'll have to wait till they get mature. I tend to think that more mature gamers gather around UO, the rest is around the frag rate oriented FPS type rpg's.

_________________
What is, is
What exsists, exists


Greetz
Planet_Jeroen

Well, if Tragena is a total failure we'll know that experience with pen and paper games doesn't help in the creation of a MMO

hi Paige!

I think too many MMO developers have played D&D.

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net