Ryandor.com

Hello,

I've done some operations and i i've successfully convert a map. But... of course... it has got some bugs...
When i try to convert that bmp to map0.mul... just look at the coasts:
Click here


And... what is interesting... i've made a blank map, with small island (grass 0, and later grass 2...) - the same problem...
What i'm not doing ok? It looks too bad, becouse m2b works on my computer only with dragonmod 11. Maybe it is possible to change the colortable (with all colors on map?) without changing coasts and all structures on map?

I hope that someone understand what i'm saying sorry for my english... and please help

A couple quick ideas. First, Dragon only supports water transitions for water at z = -5 and land at z = 0. Second, did you run DragonSP after Dragon? The transitions are all static tiles placed by DragonSP in the statics*.mul, and if you don't create them, you won't see them.

Looking at your post, I think the second statement is more likely.

Huh? Dragon supports any water to transition you throw at it.. its up to you to make sure the statics will match, or the traisition to will streatch right.

It looks to me like somehow the grass you are using there, is either not telling dragon to use static water transition tiles, or your static water tile transitions are actually in the grass itself, and you cant see them.

Try once, lowering yourself below the grass in htat spot, and see if there are water tiles below the grass... that will help narrow down your trouble.

_________________
Forget what you know, know what you forget.

Hmm.... coastlines is a not static, but map texture. So, if your dragon making that weird thing, possibly it just cant read a texture layment script (transition). Check the transitions scripts (water2x, x2water) for bugs. If they must be readed and making changes in the rendering process.
Maybe you have changed dragon palette and it happens because it haven't required script modifications in the same files. Otherwise it is trouble of script reading...

_________________
"Be calm and silent, as Darkness care not of passions and lies. Be patient and cold, as Darkness exists out of borders of time and emotions. Just be yourself, as You are in the Darkness and Darkness is inside of you."
-Dark Ones Doctrine, 2001y (c)-

This is a false statement. All water transitions are static items, not map textures.

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Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net

1) i've always turned dragonsp.exe...

2) i've tried with grass 2, grass 0 etc... with no changes.

3) I've only unpacked dragonmod11, and using pallete from this mod i've made a map...

So.. any conclusion? How can i modyfiy map when dragonmod11 (wich only can create for me bmp file from mul) doesn't work good?

Another screenshot (from paint shop pro) :

ok, probably I've solved that problem... but another has shown :/
I have tested it on non-changed osiconversionmap11 (from http://stormcow.ryandor.com) and clear DragonMod11 (without customs scripts and configs, just downloaded).

Editor:


In-game:


What is that and how to remove it? It looks terribly... and it is all over the map.

That is the next wave that is coming into the shore. Surfers will not be happy if you get rid of it.

Seriously....that is the transition edge of the water color that Dragon mod11 uses to place the wavey water tiles (ocean -5 on the palette). It transitions anyplace it meets another "color." Perhaps you could use only that color for all of your water? I'm not sure if that would work, but you could give it a try.

But why that water is all over the map? On osiconversion? And on all m2b maked maps? Yhm... something's wrong...

Edit:

Ok, i found on the forum... that it is normal for DragonMod11 oO
To bad... cuz only on dragonmod11 works m2b... eh.. better way i see is to download map from the net than edit or make new...
Plaintive...

You actually could see that efect in classical Felucca, so there is no anything wrong.

To Sydius: if you cant see a differense between coastline and water transitions thats is not my trouble...

_________________
"Be calm and silent, as Darkness care not of passions and lies. Be patient and cold, as Darkness exists out of borders of time and emotions. Just be yourself, as You are in the Darkness and Darkness is inside of you."
-Dark Ones Doctrine, 2001y (c)-

You are wrong.

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net

It was an unfortunate side effect of how Dragon handles certain scripts and a trade off I had to accept to be able to generate the shallow water properly. It is easy to get rid of the tiles in worldforge. Because of the limitations of Dragon it is not possible to get a perfect map from it. Instead Mod 11 focused on doing as much as it could to make the WF step easier.

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This space for rent.

hm, I never used Mod 11.. but couldnt you just run DragonSP without the useing water to water static transition? seems like thats a posability.

_________________
Forget what you know, know what you forget.

The problem is that you're using a water to water transition. Dragon uses a water to 'X' transition. Since you have two types of water (shallow and ocean), they are different groups, and thus the water to 'X' gets used.

aka Reu, if you only use the shallow water color, you'll have literally millions of statics, since each shallow water tile has a brownish static tile 10 z below it. I typically just use the ocean water color, and my maps look fine... I also don't have to go into WF and get rid of the "wave".

For the record, the coastlines are made of two static tiles for each "square" of the map. One is the land/cliff, and the other is the "wave" tile showing the water lapping up against the cliff. Try removing or renaming the main statics file(s) and load up your favorite emu, or run Dragon without the water to 'X' transitions. You'll see what I mean.

The more accurate thing to say would be that each brown map tile has a static water tile 10z above it. The brown is a map texture; the water (over shallow areas) is a static tile.



Perhaps I am just misunderstanding you, but the cliff would be a map texture (not a static tile). However, you are still correct in that it takes two (generally speaking) -- one static water tile for the edge where it hits the cliff, and another behind it (or else you get a very thin area where you can see through the ocean!).

Oh, and I do not mean to attack you or nit-pick? just clarifying for information's sake.

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net

Coastline is in first place a part of land that bordering with water. When you approach a coast, you approaching a land, not a water that bordering with it. So i havent see any reason for your against my opinion ("This is a false statement. All water transitions are static items, not map textures"). Think logically, think right.

P.S. currently on a progress of making static transitions for starfloor and lava... good ones...

_________________
"Be calm and silent, as Darkness care not of passions and lies. Be patient and cold, as Darkness exists out of borders of time and emotions. Just be yourself, as You are in the Darkness and Darkness is inside of you."
-Dark Ones Doctrine, 2001y (c)-

While you may think your opinion seems logical, it is not how UO functions. What I said is not an opinion, is a verifiable fact. A coastal transition consists of a land tile (texture) with a water tile (static) over it. The water transition is a static item placed over the ground texture to give the illusion of a smooth transition from water to something else.

The graphic representing a transition from water to something else is stored in the staidx0/statics0.mul files, and therefore considered a static item (both in terms of terminology and as to how the client program uses it). This is different from nearly every other kind of transition.

In addition, the statement that the second wave is a normal part of the UO map in "classical Felucca" is also false. I am not sure what you mean by "classical" -- but in no version of Felucca has that ever existed. Besides having been there myself, I can find screen shots from any given year of coastlines to prove this. Originally, it was possible to see a "wave" out to sea from the shore in some areas, but this was an animation that is very different from what the user above was posting a picture of.

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net

"Hmm.... coastlines is a not static, but map texture. So, if your dragon making that weird thing, possibly it just cant read a texture layment script (transition). Check the transitions scripts (water2x, x2water) for bugs. If they must be readed and making changes in the rendering process." - did you see there any word about a statics? I'm thinking about a map problem, not any statics here. I'm talking about coastlines, not coast transitions. I'm not taken any focus on water. So do not need try to fix a thing you dont understanded fully.

In sphere Felucca map these graphics existed too. I'm not sure that they was holded in RunUO, but sure they was there clearly.

_________________
"Be calm and silent, as Darkness care not of passions and lies. Be patient and cold, as Darkness exists out of borders of time and emotions. Just be yourself, as You are in the Darkness and Darkness is inside of you."
-Dark Ones Doctrine, 2001y (c)-

I bolded that part of your quote where you mention statics.




A coastline is the border of a coast -- the line on a map that represents the change from land to water. A coast is a transition from land to sea, represented in UO by a static item. You clearly said that coastlines are not static in your post, which is false. Since a coastline consists of coasts, and coasts consist of water, you cannot refer to coastlines without the implication of water.



I was simply clarifying a falsehood in your post. Perhaps that is not what you meant to say at all, and you are thinking of something completely different, but as written, it is false. Coastlines in UO do consist of statics.


Sphere, as far as I know, does not add those tiles as dynamic items, and they do not exist in the original map stored client-side. While I may be wrong, and while Sphere may indeed add them for some unknown reason, it is incorrect to imply that the original client-side map has such a feature when it does not, which it does not. I am referring to the in-game screen shot in the third post containing screen shots.

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net

Thank you for the corrections, guys. I don't always communicate clearly. Sometimes it is just in the way a thing is expressed, regardless, I am always grateful when someone with more understanding than I have expounds, so, thank you.

You're right... oops.

Well... if you're thinkin that i haven't know that water by itself is pure static, that strange...

_________________
"Be calm and silent, as Darkness care not of passions and lies. Be patient and cold, as Darkness exists out of borders of time and emotions. Just be yourself, as You are in the Darkness and Darkness is inside of you."
-Dark Ones Doctrine, 2001y (c)-

Assuming you mean that it would be strange if I thought that you did not know that water by itself is a static item, then I would have to say that I do not know how that was implied by anything I said. We have clearly been discussing coastlines, where water meets land, and therefore is not water by itself. Besides, in the most usual circumstance, water "by itself" would not be static, but an actual part of the map terrain (although it is possible for it to be static, as well).

If you mean to say something else, then I fail to understand that meaning and do not know what you intend to communicate via that statement.

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net

In this case I think the language barrier is the problem. Syd you take Russian and Xenoth you take English and we'll get together in about 20 years and have some beer!

Dev

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"So...if crazy people don't know their crazy...does that mean your only sane if your know your crazy?"

I actually want to learn Russian. I am learning Japanese first, though.

I agree that the issue is probably resulting from the language barrier, but, regardless, I thought it would be best to clarify so that no newbie would be misled.

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net