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 Post subject: Vanguard beta
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:16 pm 
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NDA

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Last edited by Sydius on Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:07 pm 
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Actually I work for them and by stating "I'm in" you violated your non-disclosure agreement..."YOUR OUT!" :twisted:

Ok....I'm joking...maybe...

So is there a link or what?

Dev

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:17 am 
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NDA. Bah.

:-(

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:14 pm 
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Nice one Syd! LOL


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:33 pm 
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I'm not in the Vanguard Beta, so I an post my opinion about it here without fear of getting sued ;P

After watching what videos and screenshots I found available on the Vanguard webpage and forums, I thus far conclude that I like some of the features, like housing and boats, and dislike the graphics, which - despite Brad McQuaid's (sp?) feeble attempts to convince me otherwise - I do not find better than those in Age of Conan. To me the Vanguard graphics look... like an upgraded DAoC, or a better Wish.

AoC's graphics-engine has a certain something which immediately sparks my interest. "It has a soul", is the best way I can describe it.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:29 am 
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Where to place a sign!?!?!?!?!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:41 am 
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Open beta is coming soon (days, supposedly). Everybody who's interested in the way UO originally worked and was intended to work, but hated what EA did to it, should sign up to see if they like the game. I know I do. Take a look at their FAQ at least, especially the parts about travel (no insta travel), death (very UO-like, but the bodies never decay), ships/housing (all player-buildable), fellowships (awesome idea), crafting/diplomacy (fancy stuff), and instancing (none of it! woo!).

It is everything I wanted UO to be and more. You do need one hell of a computer to get the most out of the graphics, though. Internet connection does not need to be the best, on the plus side -- I get by just fine with a 200ms ping (dialup range), which the game considers "green" (as opposed to laggy, yellow, or downright unplayable, red).

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:46 am 
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The awesome thing about Vanguard is that it does not propose very many new ideas. It just proposes different ways of doing what I already loved. One of their primary policies is to not throw the baby out with the bath water every time a problem presents itself (boring travel, dungeon griefing, house crowding, etc.). A striking contrast to the direction Richard Garriott has turned with Tabula Rasa -- which is to throw the entire bathroom out. Tabula Rasa is also amazingly fun, but in a completely different (and completely new, for the most part), way.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:36 pm 
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Some screen shots (non-NDA-breaking :-P):

I plan to start in Kojan, an Asian-themed series of islands. This is a screen shot of some Kojani ships, which I plan to both build and sail. The only way to get to the other main continents (one being European-themed, another being Arab-themed) is by ship or, if you are persistent and lucky enough to avoid the sea monsters, by swimming. So I may start either a trading business of importing/exporting exotic goods (every land has very distinct items) or people (there will be no NPC ships... well, other than pirates!).

http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/gallery/files/2/0/ScreenShot_02139_original.jpg


The next screen shot is some Kojani wildlife. I love how many animals are wandering around in the game... even swimming for sea turtles is fun. I hate games that only have monsters. You can also get an idea for how far you can see... of course that depends on your system. They plan to extend the viewable distance to more than 10km once Windows Vista is more prevalent and people, on average, have more RAM.

http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/galler ... iginal.jpg

The next shot shows off a night scene... the sky is very pretty as clouds roll by and the sun/moon rise/fall. It gets a little too dark at night to see more than a few meters, though.

http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/galler ... iginal.jpg

Another shot with pretty sky and what looks to me like a ranger (a damage-dealing fighter):

http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/galler ... iginal.jpg

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:32 am 
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Open beta has started. No more NDA. :-D

It's an awesome game! Wooo!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:29 pm 
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what are ur suggested requirements?

i have XFX 6800GS 256mb DDR3 PCI-16
2.2GHZ AMD Athon 64 3200+ CPU
Plenty of Harddrive space.
2gigs of Ram

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:52 am 
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I'd be interested on hearing more. What makes it awesome? What are the similarities with UO? What are the downsides?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:02 am 
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Coldfire -- your system is very similar to mine, so it should be fine.

HellRazor -- It is a lot like the original UO in a lot of ways:

- No instancing. At all.
- Persistent housing (though they do have to be in predefined plots).
- Animals (a lot of MMO's now days have hardly any).
- Reasonable loot (no gold on cows).
- Working player-owned ships (they work even better than UO's).
- When you die, you leave a corpse with your stuff on it (no ghost, though -- you teleport back to a "bind point") that you have to get back to (unlimited time to do so, though).

It goes above and beyond UO in a number of ways:

- The housing is all player-built. You cannot just buy a house, you have to pay players to build it or build it yourself (in which case you would need many kinds of crafter mule).
- Ships are also player-built, again requiring many kinds of crafter.
- No insta-travel of any kind (except the "recall" ability which teleports you back to your bind location... but this may be just for beta?).
- Caravan system for traveling between towns while offline (so long as one member of the caravan is online, it keeps moving).
- Fellowship system allows a group of close friends to ALWAYS share experience, guaranteeing that they stay close to each other in level, even when offline. This is for close friends who do not get to play the same amount of time each week, but would like to adventure together.
- Localized banks and economies (ala no insta-travel).
- Diplomacy classes allow you to use diplomacy with NPCs, which is required for many quests and grants special powers (kinda' like fame?)... an example would be talking your way past the guards so that you could have an audience with the king which might be required as a part of a long quest chain. Towns are the diplomat's dungeon, and it is extremely fun -- I was solving a local murder case without ever having to fight anybody.
- Diplomacy, crafting, harvesting, and adventuring skills/classes are completely independent of each other, to help prevent the need for otherwise useless mule characters.
- The crafting system is completely different than any other MMO, and is much more fun. You have to go through several stages of crafting each part, and the parts are then assembled into a final product. You never fail unless you know why, and you can prevent the same failure from happening in the future if you know how (of course, there is a limit to how many different tools you have on hand to deal with problems).
- You never craft anything "just to level" -- which ruins the economy by pumping it full of stuff nobody really wanted. Instead, you do work orders, which consist of making mundane items in exchange for boosted experience and money -- I was making a dozen silverware sets the other day.
- The graphics are absolutely amazing.
- The 12 classes available are broken down into 3 tanks, 3 offensive fighters, 3 healers/defensive mages, and 3 offensive mages. All 3 of a given type excel equally at their task (tanking/attacking/healing/nuking) but have their own specialty.
- The world is absolutely the biggest world I have ever seen in a game.
- Seamless world -- no zones or loading times (except the first, of course).
- You can see every item you are wearing on your character, including jewelry.
- The characters are more customizable in every way than I have seen in any other game.
- A high-level item on a low-level character becomes much less powerful because the low-level character wouldn't know how to use it. To prevent bad twinking. Same with a high-level buff on a low-level character.
- A high-level item on a low-level character on the same account as a high-level character will be slightly more powerful because of the high-level character being on the account. So that you can give your new character good stuff and have it be useful, to prevent having to churn your way through the entire game again if you don't want to. They consider this "good twinking".
- Everybody gets a horse around level 10 as a low-level quest item since there is no insta-travel, but there are a ton of upgrades to both the animal itself and the items the animal owns. IE, better horse shoes to make it faster or bigger saddle bags that make it slower but allow it to carry more. Eventually at high-level, you can ride a flying dragon.

The downsides, so far:
- Rigid class system means that two rangers are two rangers, and are largely interchangeable. There will be differences in skills and stats, but a ranger will always be a ranger.
- The quests seem to keep you so well-stocked on equipment that you almost never need to buy anything... at least I never have, but then, I've only reached level 10.
- It is currently 17 gigs on hard-drive and I heard it will be 24 when done.
- With no insta-travel, don't expect to meet your friends if they started on another continent until after level 10 (in fact, all ship travel is done by players... no NPC ferries, even!).
- The adventure quests are more of the same in terms of what you see in every MMO... nothing revolutionary there.
- They are determined to focus on PvE, so PvP will be available but they refuse to divert resources to balancing it at the expense of improving the PvE.
- Most monsters don't seem to do anything especially interesting -- they just wander aimlessly like any other game, until you come too close.
- It is an item-based game, which is a personal preference thing, but I like skill-based.
- While you can't steal a kill or steal loot, if you are in a popular hunting spot when EVERYBODY is a n00b, IE, right after they wipe the beta server or right after release, it can be frustrating finding anything to kill. It will tell you when a mob is "owned" by another player, though, by graying out the health bar of the mob.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:26 am 
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Syd - I just started playing it yesterday, to try it out and, so far, it's fun.

I have a question, though, if you don't mind. I *love* gathering resources and crafting. But, so far, I haven't found any NPC's that offer crafting skills. Granted, I'm still at Dellerjuba Village. :)

Does that option come soon? Also, any character can craft. Yes? I ask because I have a Ranger. I love Rangers, too. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:15 pm 
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Yes, any character can craft. Before you can harvest or craft, though, you must visit a crafting/harvesting trainer to select your initial class (ie blacksmith vs. alchemist etc.). They will give you some very basic tutorial-style quests to do to familiarize yourself with it, too. Dellerjuba doesn't have any such NPCs (that I know of)... that continent (Kojan, right?) is the newest and still needs some filling-out, but there are the NPCs you want in the next town over (a short run along the road -- be mindful of some aggro along the way, though). Same applies for diplomacy.

Oh, and don't worry if the starter quests for the crafter/harvester have nothing to do with what you want to do -- they are just generic "learn how to do it" type of quests... after you finish it, you'll be given a choice of what style of craft to pick up. Be warned, though, you can't make bows/arrows yet (still being added to the game). My ranger was much disappointed by this.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:11 pm 
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Thanks Syd, I appreciate you taking the time to give us more info!

I've heard a lot of positive buzz about Vanguard along with a few people who didn't care for it.

I might just need to take the plunge and give it a try. Its that or get sucked into WoW along with some friends who keep bugging me to try it. So far though I haven't heard/seen anything in WoW that seems worthy of all the praise it gets. I mean, it seems ok, but it looks an awful lot like the same old stuff in a new wrapping.

P.S. I'm still playing City of Villains, something about it really appeals to me. Its nice to have an MMO that you can play casually without losing ground if you don't invest all your time in it. It's one of those games I can fire up, run a few quick missions, and log off with. Lots of variety for player appearance and power sets. Also, the customer support is excellent and they do a lot of cool little things like "Double XP weekend" and bringing back the winter event for an extra week after it had expired to give the players more chances to get badges and xmas gifts.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:49 pm 
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Vanguard's target audience is the "core gamer"... Someone who likes complexity, really. It is not a "log in, do a mission, and log off" kind of game... sure, you can do that sometimes, but, more often than not, it's a "log in, do a part of a mission, then log off" for me. An example would be the druid's special abilities which do not kick in until you have been playing for a solid hour. Well, I'm a druid, and I'm a VERY casual gamer (maybe only an hour or so a day, if at all), so I'm just asking to be left in the dust... but I'm okay with that. It all depends on whether or not you're okay with not being the best of the best. I'm going into it knowing I won't be, and so far, it seems like the kind of game where there is way too much room for that to matter, anyway. A consideration, though.

It also does not have any new concepts, really. Just new fixes for old ideas that UO/EQ broke. That's another reason I like it... they aren't trying to out-pace other games in "throwing the baby out with the bath water" by introducing ideas to circumvent problems that aught to be fixed and not abandoned.

It is about as different from CoV as it can get. I liked CoV, too, but not enough to go beyond the trial. For one thing, I don't like instancing. It also felt like a single player game that other people happened to be wandering in and out of. I felt alone, and as though my character didn't matter at all.

VG is not better than CoV -- it is far too different to compare. If you like CoV/CoH, though, you will *LOVE* Tabula Rasa, Richard Garriott's (Lord British) new game. It plays just like CoV/CoH, but is so much more awesome. :-D

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:43 pm 
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Thanks, bunches, for the reply and info. Too bad about bows and arrows. Kinda hard to be a Ranger with a sword. :)

But, still, it's fun so far and that's what counts. Even though, each time I log in, my half-elf's hair changes. :lol:

But then, it IS just a Beta.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:30 pm 
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Yeah. You should be able to change your character's appearance even after it is made, though. I hope this feature stays in... I like being able to change my hair every so often, get a tan, or put on some weight. Sure, it's kinda' silly, but I like it anyway.

I think they're adding art now, though... they seem to patch about every day, even. It used to be a patch every few weeks until this most recent run of beta.

I had a human ranger about 6 months ago that I leveled to around level 7 in Qualia... I didn't like Qualia and the game was too buggy for me to enjoy back then, so I didn't play for 5 months. When I came back, my ranger looked nothing like what he used to -- he went from tan to pale, from short black hair to long blond hair, and his face was all wrong. He was also naked (well, as naked as you get in VG...).

If you plan to play on a west coast PvE (I would do PvP, but since they say they will not be "wasting resources" on balancing PvP, I think I'll avoid it for once) server on Kojan, you should consider joining my VG guild. Well, okay, it's not a real guild... Only two members, including myself... the other being my girlfriend, and only because I cry when she proposes joining another guild. :-P

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:04 pm 
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HellRazor wrote:

I might just need to take the plunge and give it a try. Its that or get sucked into WoW along with some friends who keep bugging me to try it. So far though I haven't heard/seen anything in WoW that seems worthy of all the praise it gets. I mean, it seems ok, but it looks an awful lot like the same old stuff in a new wrapping.


Few things are nothing more then repackaged old ideas (with minor evolution). If you stumble on one that isn't, it is probably an idea that is "older" then you, so seems new.

WoW has one thing going for it, a Mac client. if you ever start playing, I am on Windrunner server.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:12 pm 
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WoW has polish. More polish than any other MMO. Polish really is important, too, and I would be playing WoW if not for VG. My only complaint about WoW is the lack of sustenance beyond the polish, if that makes sense. It is like, instead of spending resources on making the game deeper and more complex, they found a cut-off point, beyond which all effort went towards polishing and perfecting what they already had. Which is one reason WoW is the most popular commercial MMO to date... and as happy as WoW's simple, bright graphics make me, I'll trade polish for complexity.

I don't think VG will feel as polished... which is sad. It is way too complex to polish to the same degree in any reasonable amount of time.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:42 pm 
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OMG ME WANTS IT!

Where can Me gets it?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:49 pm 
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I want it so bad.......................................

i never get to play betas :(

how much is the monthly fee?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:01 am 
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Sydius wrote:
Vanguard's target audience is the "core gamer"... Someone who likes complexity, really. It is not a "log in, do a mission, and log off" kind of game... sure, you can do that sometimes, but, more often than not, it's a "log in, do a part of a mission, then log off" for me. An example would be the druid's special abilities which do not kick in until you have been playing for a solid hour. Well, I'm a druid, and I'm a VERY casual gamer (maybe only an hour or so a day, if at all), so I'm just asking to be left in the dust... but I'm okay with that. It all depends on whether or not you're okay with not being the best of the best. I'm going into it knowing I won't be, and so far, it seems like the kind of game where there is way too much room for that to matter, anyway. A consideration, though.

It also does not have any new concepts, really. Just new fixes for old ideas that UO/EQ broke. That's another reason I like it... they aren't trying to out-pace other games in "throwing the baby out with the bath water" by introducing ideas to circumvent problems that aught to be fixed and not abandoned.

It is about as different from CoV as it can get. I liked CoV, too, but not enough to go beyond the trial. For one thing, I don't like instancing. It also felt like a single player game that other people happened to be wandering in and out of. I felt alone, and as though my character didn't matter at all.

VG is not better than CoV -- it is far too different to compare. If you like CoV/CoH, though, you will *LOVE* Tabula Rasa, Richard Garriott's (Lord British) new game. It plays just like CoV/CoH, but is so much more awesome. :-D


I like both types of games. CoV is nice for more casual gaming, it is a fun game but not really a role playing game (although there are people who do roleplay, the game design is more set up around leveling and short missions). And its not very complex. Just some neat mindless fun.

I'm surprised that you felt alone though because one thing that I think CoV does right is that it is designed to make it easy to form teams, and everything is geared toward making teams more advantagous than solo'ing. I plan to bring some of the concepts I've found that work well in CoV into my UO shard. Your right tho, your character is just one among many and you're not really able to do anything whatsoever to influence the game world in any way.

I like games like UO more for the role playing and social aspects along with the variety and complexity. To me games like CoV and Vanguard are like apples and oranges. Luckily I like both apples AND oranges. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:21 am 
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Coldfire wrote:
I want it so bad.......................................

i never get to play betas :(

how much is the monthly fee?


They haven't said yet. They might be waiting to see how many people pre-order/join the open beta to gauge demand.

You can pre-order VG, which gives you a beta key, or go to FilePlanet, or just sign up on the VG web site. I think they are opening it up to anybody who wants to play at this point. It won't last long, though... maybe a month.

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