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 Post subject: Horizons
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:27 pm 
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Back when they were developing Horizons, I was really into it. I love all of the concepts and ideas, but before it got to beta, I, for whatever reason, got distracted and forgot all about it.

Since that time, I have heard many sketchy accounts of it, usually in the form of negative comments or jokes, and never anything good. I never bothered to read reviews since what little I did know painted a very bad picture for the game.

The other day (three days ago, in fact), I decided to try it since there is a 14-day trial and you do not have to buy the game, and for one simple reason: non-instanced housing.

The Horizons web site leaves much to be desired -- it is obviously a very simple CMS with only a minimal amount of content -- a short FAQ and a one-page story for each of the races. The community section of the web site is much more alive and friendly, the forums are pleasant compared to those for most games, and the staff regularly posts there and helps you right away with any questions or problems.

The client download was quick using their custom torrent client. It only took about an hour. The client available for download is not the most current, though, so you have to patch it after installation. A little more than 1600 patched files, in fact. The patching program is standard, if a bit ugly. It took about an hour to patch up to date.

Account creation was a breeze when I made my account, but when I went back to create a second account for my girlfriend, it was broken, and has been broken for the last couple of days. They are fixing it right now.

The support system is very slow -- I submitted a ticket about the abovementioned account problem, and it was over 24 hours before I got any kind of response, and it was just to call the company they use for billing, whom told me there was nothing they could do. That frustrated me quite a bit, but when I visited the forums, I found out I was not the only one experiencing the problem, and a developer was quick to respond and told us all that they are working on it. The knowledge base in the support section is fairly fleshed out, though.

The client launcher is a web site that uses an ActiveX control to start the actual application. This is probably the worst part of the game because it is both confusing and unprofessional in my opinion. There are many options not explained very well, and it was very intimidating the first time I saw it. On the plus side, you can manage your characters from any computer, even without the client installed.

There are only three shards available, although there were once more. One, called Chaos, is your standard server. Another, called Order, is a role-play only shard -- this is a huge plus to me, as they enforce naming conventions and whatnot. The last, called Blight, is a test server.

There are many races, more than in any other game I have played, including dragon. I picked a pixie-like race called Dryad because they looked the prettiest. They do not fly like dragons, unfortunately, for balance reasons, even though they have wings.

The graphics are competitive with modern MMOs when on the higher settings, but the default setting looks like crap.

The newbie tutorials work nicely and teach you well, but leave many questions unanswered.

Crafting is more fun and easier than in Ultima Online -- you can create items in bulk, and it will even tell you what your chance of success is (which you can adjust by using more or less material). You can also add techniques to crafting which allow you to make the equivalent of magic items.

Harvesting is a very hands-off process; you double-click what you want to harvest, and then minimize the client and check your e-mail or use the bathroom or watch TV, and your person will keep harvesting until the resource is all gone or until your pack is full. You then refine it, which is the same as crafting.

Combat is a lot like Ultima Online or Ryzom or Lineage 2... except spells auto-queue so if you cast once, it keeps casting until the thing is dead or you select a different spell. Magic is pretty.

There is no mana in the game, so casting is only limited by the time it takes to cast the spell -- something I have never seen before. The more powerful spells have a "cooldown" period, though.

You can multiclass without limit, but it affects how quickly you gain experience for the combat classes. You can be in only one combat (called "adventure") class and one crafting class at a time. You can, however, max out every crafting class without hurting XP gain.

There are some 40 or so skills, which seem to go up on their own as you level, but you can also spend skill points at trainers to raise them more, I heard.

My favorite feature of the game is that, when you have the appropriate graphic setting on, you see each and every piece of equipment on your person -- right down to the wrist band and belt. I love that.

It seems like the Order shard is fairly empty -- plenty of available plots to buy.

They say you will be able to craft furniture soon, which is what I want to do.

Oh, the load time for starting the client is insanely long.

No PvP, except in a special area.

Uhm...

That's all I know so far. So far, I love it, though.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:19 pm 
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The original content of the game was totally different that what people see in game now, even the landmass was different.

The company ousted the original designer/CEO who created the world then changed everything before release. He actually lived here in Colorado up by Boulder and I have spoken to him via email a couple of times over what happened and it was not pretty...

Graphics for the game are ok like you said and the skill system was interesting but the game requires so much group cooperation to do things that I felt it sucked. Yes you get browny points for going around and building bridges in the areas where they have broken or village buildings but to do so requires several people donating massive amounts of resources and some serious time commitment to do so.

This might at first appear appealing but it quickly becomes a huge pain in the arse... The game has a great story line though the original would have been better.

When I started playing right after it came out, quite a bit of the game was not even finished and most was still not "Unlocked" as the story line dictated. There were only a few races in the begining because the story line had not progressed to unlock the rest and even dragon races were stuck as babies because the next step had not been discovered, they also had not designed the housing for dragons...which was the race I picked to start.

The housing idea they use is awesome and I think every game should follow the same system. It forces players to build in specified areas and only after the area has been discovered and unlocked which is realistic and fun at the same time. Dark Age of Camelot uses a very simular system for housing though its in a seperate part of the map which allows them to expand as needed without messing with the main map which is a good idea as well.

Dev

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:41 am 
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The community on the Order server is very friendly and nice compared to any other MMO I have played (Ryzom would be second, and early UO third). I am generally an introverted player who would typically spend the majority of his time alone if it were possible, and I do not typically go out of my way to meet people, especially when I am just poking around and learning about the game, but many people did indeed talk to me, and all were pleasant.

I decided to be a pixie-like Dryad (complete with sparkles coming out my ass and butterfly wings), and every other Dryad I have come across has greeted me and helped me without me doing anything to get their attention, other than having sparkles come out my ass. One gave me a considerable (to me) amount of money as a "welcome to the game" gift, and another routinely passed by where he knew I was crafting and buffed me (the buffs last a very long time, btw).

I assume that since it is a roleplay server, races generally stick together, as most of the peoples of other races either ignored me, or in the case of a dragon, threatened to squish me.

I spent most of yesterday crafting -- which is a very relaxing thing to do (harvesting is so automated). The only time I ever have to look at the screen is when my inventory is full or when the resource I am harvesting from is gone (but there must be a macro to go to the next one, I am sure). Good thing to do when you want to watch TV or do something else.

One downside I have noticed is that melee combat does not go by avatar shape at all, IE something can hit you without hitting you, or even being close to you, and it also goes by the "if you are near it when it starts to swing, it is as if you were there the whole time" system, which I do not like. Dungeons and Dragons online has, by far, the best system in this regard -- all of the combat is based on avatar collision -- if you do not actually hit something, you do not actually hit it -- which makes ranged combat a lot more interesting (constantly dodging grenades or spells, for example).

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:05 pm 
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Yeah the combat thing I noticed the first time I played also but contributed it to lag from the interface they used at the time and the debuggers running in the background.

Anyone how uses a website to run a client has not designed many games...it makes it horribly laggy.

EQ has the same problem, they can be a half mile away in the game and beat the crap out of you because their actually right on your butt. The graphics lag and ping times are mostly to blame.

Dev

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:23 am 
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It is not lag. It works like archery in UO -- as soon as a "shot" is made (even melee), it will follow you, even if you would logically have avoided it (by running away before the impact). They do not need to get as close to you as you would think, either -- melee works for what looks like a yard of distance further than is reasonable.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:46 am 
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I tried this when it first came out. It left me cold, I found it to be pretty dull. There were never any people online, there were no events or community that I could see or latch onto, and it seemed to be just a level grind. It was also difficult to get information on things such as housing. It wasn't a terrible game, it was just kind of....bleh. There was simply no heart in the game. I went into it with high hopes too, based on all the pre-release buzz.

I seem to remember I also had some billing problems similar to what others here have said.

I admire their efforts to get the game back on track, its very difficult to overcome the types of challenges Horizons has faced. But it's also hard to recommend a struggling online game when it could go belly under at any minute.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:25 am 
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Yeah... not many players. The players there, though, are very friendly.

Coming from the UO Emulation community, though, servers going "belly-up" should be a minor concern. :-P

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:40 pm 
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Hehe it took me a month to get my account cancelled, they ended up getting sued for "billing" errors a year or two ago since they double billed everyone then took forever to correct the problem.

Horizens has been in trouble since opening day.

There were almost too many people playing when I joined up, then you had the normal game bank campers who did nothing all day but park at the bank and impress each other with their L33t stories of SkIlLZ. That sort of sucked some of the fun out of it for me.

Dev

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:44 am 
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Horizons. I beta'ed, first month retailed, and have gone back from time to time to check up on the mmo that refuses to lay down heehee.

You'd be amazed Syd at the original concept for horizons. Original concept was pvp. The races would war with one another. And originally there were about 4 more races planned than what are currently ingame.

Horizons is an interesting game to me. Its had its ups, downs, level offs, etc. The owners have filed bank ruptcy twice. First time to get out of debt. Second time they filed they sold the entire game to themselves under the name of a different company heehee.

Dragons took forever to come unto their own. For the longest time dragons were those gimped and nerfed overgrown puppies that everyone had one of.

Dryads came along about 2 months into retail, unlocked through server wide unique events. About 4 months into retail they gave up on waiting for the last of the servers to unlock the dryads and simply gave the lil pixies to the players.

Forget their names....the hooved ones. Damn. anyways they came along second. You had to fight dead versions of them, more server wide questing, etc.

About a year into the game Adult age finally became an option to Dragons, and about 4(?) months ago Ancient started being unlocked in stages.

The game really is nice in my eyes. Its peaceful, everyone is friendly like you say. I remember the first big killer for the game. The dev's changed crafting making it REALLY hard, entire guilds cancelled subscriptions and the company switched to the "call us to cancel" thing. The economy whimpered and died that day.

What I like about it? Graphics are superb. Music is outstanding. Combat is nice, no stupid mana to fiddle with. If your a humanoid race you can literally max level every single class in the game if you want. And yes, the equipment being visable is wicked cool.

No pvp is a major plus for me. filters out alot of the buttheads. The rp server has a splendid, small community. Everyone knows everyone.

Damn it...now I want to go reinstall it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:25 pm 
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Horizons amazed me yesterday. I got it to run on my laptop, which has less than the minimum requirement of RAM, and an integrated video card. Granted, all player and dynamic object textures are missing (not a huge deal -- it just means everybody is white), but it does not lag too much, which really surprised me. It seems to scale pretty well.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:21 am 
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Order server, whats your characters name syd


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:57 am 
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Sydius

I am a Dryad. :-)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:00 pm 
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SEE! I'm not the only one who names my characters after my screen name.

That also explains why Paige has been in Eve so little lately! :wink:

Dev

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:51 pm 
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pfft, i just have so many alts in eve that you have trouble tracking them all down :P

and its amusing when im talking in private with a friend and mention you being in shea's or something along those lines and they go "A DEV has been in shea?!?"

sigh. :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:39 am 
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Thats just crazy talk! Thats all that is...just crazy talk!

Dev

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:02 pm 
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Woa are the people nice.

One player I barely know spent three hours doing nothing but making me spells, and she gave me a set for free, and then went and made another set for my girlfriend!

...

She could only make fire spells, though, and my girlfriend wants to specialize in energy, so another player spent an hour making energy spells for her.

...

Another player gave me really awesome boots in exchange for one of the components.

So far, nobody has asked us to join any guild or anything, either. :-D

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:30 pm 
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Thats because the entire order server is essentially one big guild. Dragons channel and Newbie channel are where everyone is.

Also of note, everyone long ago max leveled their characters and everyone's rich these days heehee. So helping out new commers is a favorite past time for many :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:05 am 
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Ok here we go.

I installed horizons and looked around in it as a fresh hatching since the last time I played was during first month retail and that dragon was only level 20ish crafting / 20ish adventure and I wanted to experience the whole thing anew.

My comments below are entirely based on the Dragon aspect of horizons, as I recall Sydius made a biped so he can explain/answer any questions from that house.

Interface
Every mmo should have an interface like this game. Every single item can be moved around, rearranged, resized, placed whereever you want. Hot key bars can go vertical and horizontal, you can creat custome hotkeys, as many chat windows as you want choosing what you want where. All your knowledge, skills, character sheet, inventory can be minimized and the smaller icon placed where ever you want.

Sound
No one can argue here, this games soundtrack is second to none. You will not find better so don't argue with me here.

Graphics
Ok, since the game came out there have always been complaints about graphical lag and finally the developers decided to do something about it. What did they do you ask? They made a lower graphics setting, made that the standard setting, and made the original graphics the high end setting heh. Whatever you do dont play a biped on low settings or you will have anarchy online and everquest 1 flashbacks.

On high settings though, very nice!

Gameplay and Observations
Okey dokey, old dragon deleted, character creation screen selected. Sydius is right about the web browser based login screen sucking. It does suck. About a year ago they released their own actual log in client but it worked so badly that they simply went back to the browser version.

You can do all sorts things to customize your characters. I went to dragon and therein is nice. Head design, eyes, body scales, height, weight, fitness appearance, colors of scales, chest patterns, patterns ontop of the scales(think pin striping on your car). You can really make your characters your own, and the color combination possiblities are really quite impressive for the dragon.

I named my dragon stips for two reasons, 1 ive used the name in just about every mmo after leaving ultima online 6 odd years ago and 2 stips means little in latin and my dragon is as tiny as i could make him. The virtual puppy.

First impression is that the starting area for dragons has completely changed. Dragons have their own considerably moreso fleshed out tutorial area of the game now that sends them on various kill quests, item finding quests, crafting quests, etc, etc. Much much nicer than the old starting area where they shared the tutorial zone with bipeds.

Eventually I wandered out of the tutorial zone and went to the starter islands. There are four of them but new trismus is the most player populated, its consigner is the most filled out of the starter isle's, and the island itself is the easiest to figure out.

The islands trees have changed, much bigger now. Layout of the village is abit different and woo hoo the crafting table is out at the resources again! Thank god, no more hauling all the way back to town just to craft spell shards!

Along with the new tutorial area, dragons have recieved a whole new starter isle experience. After you complete the quest that the tutorial isle sent you on to speak with the guy by the shrine(bind to that shrine! saves travel time!), ignore all the rest of the townsfolk and head down to the two dragon caves. These two dragons took turns sending me on kill quests, sending me to talk to the other dragon, doing crafting quests, then back again.

Questing is quite nice and detailed, tells you exactly where to go, what to do, etc. You dont have huge exclamation points or yellow arrows pointing at npc's with quests. Near as I can tell they have a little blue bubble over their head with a question mark when they actually have something for you to do. I just talk to everyone. Even the bipeds up in town.

Crafting is a wonderful experience, its one of the most versatile option packed crafting systems ever. Period. I don't think there is a crafting system that actually tops this one. You can create things, reprocess things, add abilities to things, add abilities to spells, add sockets to your armor and claws, etc, etc. The list of possibilities goes on and on.

Dragon crafting isn't as verbose as the bipeds. Dragons can craft scales, spells, and components that bipeds use to make more advanced items. And as a dragon no matter what you will be a crafter as well as an adventurer! Don't disagree with me on this, you have no choice if you want to become an adult and eventually an ancient.

Leveling as a dragon comes in two forms. Exp gained for killing things/questing to kill things and Exp gained for crafting things/questing to craft things. Every 10 adventure levels you gain a new slot to put armor in. IE lvl1 chest slot, lvl10 left wing slot, lvl20 right wing slot, etc. By the time you reach level 100 you will have a head slot, chest, belly, tail, wings, front paws, and hind paws. Also you can wear an emblem and equip a claw to enhance your attacking abilities. The last equipment slot would be your pouch which as you level up you can get better pouches for carring more and more loot. Every 20 crafting levels gives you the next tech level for all your crafting abilities. Inbetween the 20 levels each level will make you more proficient at crafting using less resources to actually make your trade. Every adventure level gives you new attack abilities or improved versions of your existing attack abilities.

Dragons have a hoard. Your hoard is consumed when you use certain abilities, and as I recall your hoard also affects your stats in some way. It slowly slowly decays(dragons in game say gnomes are thieves and widdle away their treasure) and you can toss just about any piece of equipment, trinket, and/or valuable into your hoard to increase its size. As I understand it, your lair has a hoard room and its size of gold inside is determined by your hoard size. Can't confirm this though as I havent seen a lair yet.

Dragons dont visually show their equipment ingame but what they do show is their size. As a hatchling a dragon is already larger than every other race. As an adult they are twice the height of a human and about 12-15 humans long standing toe to eo. As an Ancient they are upwards of 4 times the height of a human and about 25 or so humans long toe to toe. At adult age dragons can fly.

Dragon Lairs are in and fully customizable.

As I observe more things ingame I'll let you all know more in posts here. Ask your questions and I'll answer them :)

Oh yea, the player population of Order is quite friendly. And from talking to newly made friends, the population is growing.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:23 am 
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DAMIT!

I just started Eve! Let me take over one Universe before you go tempting me with switching back to Horizons!

Temptress!!! That's what you are! :wink:

Dev

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:05 am 
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-grins-

i just ran out of dragon quests in the starter isle new trismus. there are two dragon cities in the game, Dralk and Chiconis, I'm over in Dralk now talking to every npc I see fishing them out for quests to do heehee!

funny thing, i said the other day it was going to be horrible spending a month getting those learning skills to level 5? well i just put aula and outmode on very long skill training and horizons will keep me nicely occupied :)

ive been guilded by a guild of all dragons. they adopted the little puppy stips, even spent an hour in rp teaching him to say words heehee :P

His initial background :
http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?G ... ID=2823334


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:51 pm 
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*cries as he installs his old disk for Horizons*

You bastard!!!!! :P

You got me curious...If the game still sucks I'm kicking someone in the fart box!

(EDIT) Oh!!! And the 8617 patches is REALLY helping! Yes from the original release to the current version there are 8617 files that have to be patched...but thats ok, I activated my old account so my TWO (2) Dragons are way ahead of you!

Dev :P

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:53 pm 
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-sulks-


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:23 am 
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Ok, I patched up and played for about 3 hours...looks like the same game other than new spell graphics and some new content...

Paigelore blew me off in the game! :P

They still have issues with critters and AI's that I noticed the first time I played and all the quest seem to follow the same lines, go find something or bash something. Hate that!

The lag has greatly improved over the first time I played though so it is actually playable now.

Even with a dual core processor and 256meg video card the graphics were about the same as the first time I tried the game though some of the skins looked a little nicer.

Started the account in one day and canceled the same day, not my bag of chips.

Dev

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